Scuderia Ferrari

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Re: Scuderia Ferrari

Postod iceman036 » Uto 03 Jan, 2017 23:45

gjoko-mkd je napisao:Binoto se obratio Čarliju zbog sumljivog RB-ovog vešanja zadnjeg trapa. Šta će biti od ovoga......videćemo

F1 suspension row brews ahead of 2017 season

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Leading Formula 1 teams could be forced to revise their suspension systems on the eve of the 2017 season amid a row brewing following a Ferrari query over trick technology that Mercedes has pioneered.

Even though the high-tech FRIC (Front and Rear InterConnected) suspension system was effectively banned in 2014, it has not stopped some outfits finding alternative ways to improve the handling of their cars.

Mercedes in particular has been at the forefront of developing fully-legal hydraulic systems to improve the overall stability of the chassis – which helps in braking and cornering – to assist in drivers’ ability to take more kerb, more aggressive driving lines and look after tyres better.

It has been achieved through the team placing a heave (or third suspension element) behind the rocker assembly to control vertical displacement of the suspension. Such an arrangement is mirrored at the back of the car too.

The benefits of the system were clear in 2016 – as Mercedes was so much better on tyre life – and it is believed that a number of outfits were preparing similar systems that took the technology even further.

Red Bull has made great strides in the past 12 months on understanding the dynamics of its own car too, having managed to exploit once again the radical rake angles that have been so integral to its aerodynamic concept.

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But the suspension technology being used has now been thrown into doubt after Ferrari queried the use of such concepts in correspondence with the FIA before Christmas.

As is common practice in F1, teams can write to the FIA to discuss whether or not it believes new ideas are legal – and if the FIA says they are not, then rival teams are informed to help them avoid pursuing the concepts themselves.

This system is also used by teams to try to clarify whether technology used by rival teams is legal too.

In the letter to F1 race director Charlie Whiting, Ferrari’s chief designer Simone Resta said that the team wanted to propose a system that could replicate FRIC without there actually being a physical connection between the front and the rear of the car.

The issue was whether or not these systems breached the catch-all Article 3.15 of F1’s technical regulations that effectively outlaws moveable aerodynamic devices, as they could help the car's aerodynamic characteristics.

In the letter that Resta wrote, a copy of which was circulated to all teams, he stated: “We are considering a family of suspension devices that we believe could offer a performance improvement through a response that is a more complex function of the load at the wheels than would be obtained through a simple combination of springs, dampers and inerters.

“In all cases they would be installed between some combination of the sprung part of the car and the two suspension rockers on a single axle, and achieve an effect similar to that of a FRIC system (Front Rear InterConnected suspension) without requiring any connection between the front and rear of the car.

“All suspension devices in question feature a moveable spring seat and they use energy recovered from wheel loads and displacements to alter the position of the heave spring.

“Their contribution to the primary purpose of the sprung suspension – the attachment of the wheels to the car in a manner which isolates the sprung part from road disturbances – is small, while their effect on ride height and hence aerodynamic performance is much larger, to the extent that we believe it could justify the additional weight and design complexity.

“We would therefore question the legality of these systems under Art. 3.15 and its interpretation in TD/002-11, discriminating between whether certain details are “wholly incidental to the main purpose of the suspension system” or “have been contrived to directly affect the aerodynamic performance of the car”.

Rules clarification

Resta wanted the FIA to confirm whether suspension systems that had two characteristics were legal. They were concepts that exhibited either:

1) displacement in a direction opposed to the applied load over some or all of its travel, regardless of the source of the stored energy used to achieve this.

Or

2) a means by which some of the energy recovered from the forces and displacements at the wheel can be stored for release at a later time to extend a spring seat or other parts of the suspension assembly whose movement is not defined by the principally vertical suspension travel of the two wheels.

In response to Ferrari, Whiting said that he believed that any suspension system that acted in such a way was not in compliance with the regulations.

Whiting said: “In our view any suspension system which was capable of altering the response of a car's suspension system in the way you describe in paragraphs 1) and 2) would be likely to contravene Article 3.15 of the F1 Technical Regulations.”

Discussions ongoing

Although Whiting’s response would appear to outlaw the use of the trick suspension technology, it is understood that teams running similar systems have now queried the situation – which means discussions are ongoing about what is and is not allowed for 2017.

Any team running a device that could be interpreted as breaching the rules faces a dilemma though on whether to commit to it with its new car – and risk it being outlawed in a final ruling – or pursue an alternative system that may not be as competitive.

F1’s first 2017 test is due to take place at Barcelona in Spain on February 27.

Additional reporting by Franco Nugnes
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-suspension-row-brews-ahead-of-2017-season-862612/

A i Mercedes nešto mrmlja:

This could be a big blow for the team expected by many (us included) te be the anti-Mercedes in next year's F1 championship
From what was gathered in the last days by the FUnoAnalisiTecnica team, roughly 15 days ago all F1 teams have received a letter from the FIA signed by Charlie Whiting which explained some "grey" areas from the 2017 technical regulations, more precisely in the suspensions department (chapter 10 of 2017's regulations).
This explanation was requested by a team (supposedly Mercedes) that was aware of a "regulation hole" and wanted to know more to assess if a solution thought for their own car was to be considered legal or not (to avoid complaints from other teams in the first phases of next season) and at the same time avoid that some other team would take advantage from it.
Supposedly, these new clarifications from the FIA have troubled mainly the Red Bull Team, which from informations gathered by FUnoAnalisiTecnica is redesigning a good part of the 2017 RB13's front and rear mechanics. Red Bull started to work on the 2017 project well in advance, so much so that, after a careful and last check of the details by Adrian Newey, most of the new car's parts were already in production at the end of November. Therefore a project in a very advanced state will now have to be greatly revised due to the new directive from Charlie Whiting; this is causing a delay in the already very busy schedule of Red Bull. Not to mention that if a car is born with a certain mechanical solution, now banned by the FIA, it could be difficult to find another one just as effective and competitive, considering we are already just 2 months away from pre-season testing.


A ovo je protiv Mercedesa(t.j. svi protiv svih)

Craig Scarborough ‏@ScarbsTech 2h2 hours ago
FIA bans Mercedes trick 'energy recovery' suspension introduced mid 2016 as having primarily an aerodynamic influence


E to je ono sto fali Ferarijevim inzenjerima a tice se iskustva - ne mogu da nadju sive zone a to je ono sto donosi prednost.
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari

Postod Dekio » Sre 04 Jan, 2017 03:01

iceman036 je napisao:
Dekio je napisao:
iceman036 je napisao:Evo ja obecavam ako Ferari bude imao tri pobede ja trcim go po mojoj ulici. Prosli put je upalilo sa trcanjem :D

A ako Ferrari bude sampion ja trcim go na najfrekventnije mestu u Beogradu! :lol:


Nemoj, parada ponosa je u septembru a ne u novembru :lol:

Al si me zajebo svaka ti cast. Sam sam trazio, jbg. Idem se sakriti negde :lol:
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari

Postod iceman036 » Sre 04 Jan, 2017 15:21

Dekio je napisao:Nemoj, parada ponosa je u septembru a ne u novembru :lol:
Al si me zajebo svaka ti cast. Sam sam trazio, jbg. Idem se sakriti negde :lol:


:ziveli:

No da se vratimo problematici Ferarijevog prigovora oko vesanja - Mercedes i RB vec imaju taj sistem implementiran u bolide za ovu godinu a Ferari je trazio pojasnjenje za svoje resenje. Mene sada kopka da Ferari mozda na ovaj nacin ne pokusava da izbije Mercedesu i RB-u tu prednost jer svoje resenje ne mogu da implementiraju zbog pravila. Ali ako je tako, onda i Mercedes i RB moraju da uklone svoje sisteme. Ako pravila nisu ista za sve onda cemu takmicenje.
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari

Postod gjoko-mkd » Sre 04 Jan, 2017 16:16

Neki pak misle da Ferari ima drugačije rešenje(vrlo teško da je tako ali aj....) i da zbog toga želi da se osigura da je sve po pravilama
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari

Postod #Seb5 » Sre 04 Jan, 2017 19:31

Možda je Ferrari baš čekao da prođu ovi crash testovi pa da tako uspore razvoj bolida kod Merca i Red Bulla, a po Twitteru pogotovo Red Bulla jer su oni imali izvanredno rešenje.
Nešto ne verujem u to snalaženje od Ferrarija ali ko zna...
I početkom 2015. je Ferrari imao, koliko se ja sećam, neku pretkomoru pa se Renault žalio i to je ukinuto posle Malezije čime su izgubili korak za Mercedesom sve do novog motora.
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari

Postod djido muva » Sre 04 Jan, 2017 21:11

Ferarijeva nova resenja su primenjiva na bolidima iz 1982.
prodje ovaj dan, dan kao san
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari

Postod gjoko-mkd » Uto 10 Jan, 2017 23:19

Do početka i ove sezone opet smo najbolji :ferrarifleg:

PGTech™ @SmilexTech
Byrne is working extremely hard on the Ferrari 2017. In recent weeks Ferrari has recovered much of the mid-year 2016 delay #FUnoAT


https://twitter.com/intent/retweet?tweet_id=818745115728547840&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&original_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.f1puls.com%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D4%26t%3D58%26sid%3De60ccc657c3c0a20c5437e4039bb9c10%26start%3D1080&tw_i=818745115728547840&tw_p=tweetembed
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari

Postod iceman036 » Uto 10 Jan, 2017 23:38

Svake godine Rori radi na bolidu, da je 50% istina, verovatno bi SF16-H bio brzi od Mercedesa za 5s po krugu.
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari

Postod gjoko-mkd » Sub 14 Jan, 2017 14:23

Sa Scuderije>

FERRARI 2017 - PART 1 here is how will the snout
We talked a lot in the last few weeks of " Suspension Gate " generated by the now famous letter sent by Ferrari to the FIA early last December. To conclude the discussion it is important to emphasize that Helmut Marko has dwelt on the fact that the new technical directive issued by Charlie Whiting after the clarification requested by Ferrari, will have an impact on suspensive systems of RB13 . Also according to the former Austrian racing driver, Red Bull will not have to completely change suspensive systems but may only be made of changes to make 100% of the legal solutions designed , planned and under construction in the month of November. Marko concluded by saying that the RB13 will mount a solution similar to that used in 2016, but "less efficient" in order to get back within the technical regulations.

PRESENTATION FERRARI 2017: 24 February at Fiorano with the first 100 km on track
But we move to the true subject of the article that is the car which Scuderia Ferrari will be riding in the 2017 Formula 1 world championship . With this article we analyze how will the face of the upcoming Italian car that we remember will be presented Friday, February 24 at the Fiorano track .



It will not be a simple presentation to Fiorano since 2017 on the same day the new car of the Italian team will also carry out the first 100 km on the track, a kind of shakedown to check that all components, especially electronic, operating as intended and that the assembly made only hours before it was made in the best way. Rather wise choice according to our point of view to make it through the first day of testing in Barcelona with the least possible unknowns. Recall that in only eight days of testing all the teams will especially try to understand as best as possible the tires as well as to test all new aerodynamic components, Mechanical and Power Unit. And 'why Ferrari chose to debut the car before the test in Barcelona: to avoid annoying loss of track time for small problems even born during the assembly of the car.

PROJECT FERRARI 2017: Rory Byrne full time to catch up to mid-2016
E 'for many weeks in Maranello that you are working hard to get prepared for this important event whereas in summer 2016 the design work had slowed down because of internal shocks that led to the "dismissal" of the then Director technical James Allison then replaced with Mattia Binotto.



In what has been collected in recent days the delay was partly also recovered thanks to the hard and valuable work of Rory Byrne that can be considered today an almost full time employee and no longer in the classic role of "consultant" , only one-off Maranello even in intense periods of pre-season work. The South African technical expert started working in Maranello around the month of August, focusing initially on the chassis of the 2017 car and then focus on the mechanics.

Compared to 2016 when the President Marchionne insisted from the outset of the victories, from the Maranello management approach chosen for the 2017 season it seems to be completely different. It will be very difficult if not impossible to have a car that will allow Ferrari to fight to win from the first races. The lively work of the last months it is necessary to bring into effect a good car , no congenital defects (present on the SF16-H, turbocharger and gearbox to name two rather obvious) and then try to develop it in the best way during the season , something that in Maranello in the last season they have not demonstrated the ability to do unfortunately. This season 2017 will be crucial for the various team succeed in bringing on the track at every appointment a number of updates since the few hours guaranteed by Regulation F1 wind tunnel and CFD will certainly "give birth" of cars rather immature in many ways of view.

FERRARI 2017: will use the same concept of the muzzle of the SF16-H
The first part of the car that we analyze on these pages is the nose to see if the Maranello team will confirm him snout style already seen on the track during the 2016 season or if it will upset.

Many people are wondering how the technical regulations evolved regarding snouts in version 2017 and the rescue comes our great Alessandro Rana who fully translated the Technical Regulations 2017 in Italian (in the next few days you can also browse it you):
ARTICLE 15.4.3 An absorbing structure must be fitted in front of the survival cell. Such a structure can not be an integral part of the survival cell but must be solidly connected to it and disposed symmetrically with respect to the center line of the car. No part of this structure can be more than 525 mm above the reference plane and its point ahead must not be less than 1050 mm forward of the front wheels .
It should have:
a) A single external vertical section, perpendicular to the center line of the car, above 9000 mm2 to a point 50 mm behind the most forward point. No part of this cross-section may be less than 135 millimeters above the reference plane and its overall width must not exceed 140 millimeters.
b) A single external vertical section, perpendicular to the center line of the car, more than 20000 mm2 at a point 150 mm behind the most forward point. The overall width of this section must not exceed 330 millimeters.
When measuring these sections, only the parts between the highest point of the section and 100 mm vertically below at that point, can be considered. Each outside vertical section, taken perpendicular to the center line of the vehicle between the points 150 mm behind the most forward point of the snout and 150 mm forward of the front wheels, must be a single section with an area that exceeds a value given by a linear taper from 20000 mm2 60000 mm2 respectively. Furthermore, all the lines drawn normally and externally to a vertical section taken 150 mm in front of the front wheels and perpendicular to the center line of the machine, must not cross a longitudinal vertical plane lying on the center line of the car.
Basically what has changed compared to the Technical Regulations 2016? Only the underlined part, ie the length of the muzzle that by adapting the front wing arrow will be for longer force. Noses version 2017 will be (theoretically) 200 mm longer than the faces seen on the track in the 2016 Formula 1 season.



From the information gathered by the team FUnoAnalisiTecnica Ferrari of 2017 will not have a muzzle solution similar to Mercedes 2016 or a "long solution" view of the SF15-T but will maintain a short nose with central protuberance . Of course, always respecting the new length of the muzzle imposed by the Technical Regulations of 1050 mm compared to 850 mm of 2016 which will have a nose less inclined, favoring also the aerodynamics of the front of the car. The greater length of the nose allow the Italian team to shorten the central protuberance through greater ease in passing the front crash test FIA in this 2017.

Short nose that will have a Importane aerodynamic function: to convey as much air as possible to the bottom of the frame with positive influences on the downforce to be generated through the generous rear diffuser version 2017.



To conclude this article, the Ferrari 2017 finally we will see the S Duct , a component that allows to increase the aerodynamic efficiency of the front thanks to the passage of air between the bottom and top of the muzzle.
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari

Postod gjoko-mkd » Uto 17 Jan, 2017 20:48

Ferrari 668 According to Autosprint:
- Split compressor/turbine
- New nose (W07 style)
- Shark fin engine cover
- HPC suspension system

Autosprint: Ferrari is poised to adopt split turbine/compressor with its 2017 PU (062/2). To reduce the temperatures, the turbo
will be more distant from the compressor. This solution will improve cooling, allowing to reduce the dimensions of the intercoolers

Autosprint: Ferrari will adopt a nose similar to the one of the Mercedes W07 + the S-Duct.
There will also be the shark fin engine cover to stabilize the rear of the car and improve airflow to the rear wing
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